Feed
 

Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
I want to fit an additional hard drive to my G5, but I can't decide on the relative merits of external ones as opposed to internal. I want to use it for Time Machine backups and I also want a smallish partition for running Tiger because Leopard does not support Classic, which I want to use occasionally.
I'd prefer to have an internal one as it's a neater solution, and I've found the word 'if' used in the Time Machine help answers which leads me to believe that it's possible.
What are the pros and cons?

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Stuart Affleck
Yes, TM works with an internal drive perfectly well. I'd strongly suggest going with a belt-and-braces approach & keeping at least one other full up-to-date backup going, just in case something terminal happens to the drive or the system as a whole.My HD setup on my Mac Pro is 1x 500GB startup drive, 1x 500GB drive for Time Machine, the stock 250GB drive for Windows (I know, I know...), plus 1 x 500GB external for regular cloning of the startup with SuperDuper!. Plus DVDs of key files, when I get round to it. An internal TM is set-and-forget- you'll never have to remember to connect it, and it is tidier if you're short of space.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
My Goodness Stuart,
Belt, braces and two seat belts, how safe can a man be? I very much like the tidiness and the set-and-forget aspect of an internal drive but would I be able to partition it and run Tiger?

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Mick Burrell
Yes you will Eric.

As I see it, the main (only?) advantage of an external drive is that if you were to have a problem with say the power supply of the G5 (heaven forbid!) then you can't use any internal drives whereas an external could be plugged into another machine to enable you to carry on.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
Thanks very much, Mick; my decision is made then!

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Lionel Ogden
I have heard it said that a backup is only a backup if it exists in more than one place. Hence the belt and braces approach used by many people. Time Machine is excellent and very convenient but it is not a bootable backup; you need a clone as produced by Super Duper or Carbon copy Cloner.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Euan Williams
It may be worth mentioning that "bare bones" hard drives (such as might be extracted from a problematic computer) can be accessed (via usb2) from a bare drive plug in adapter. This text is from Newer Technology (there are other suppliers):

"Digital audio and photo files are growing in use and size to where upgrading to a larger hard drive is becoming a regularly performed procedure. The NewerTech USB 2.0 Universal Drive Adapter makes it easy to transfer data between the old and new drives as well as give the old drive a second life as an external storage solution. It's a complete solution that allows any 2.5", 3.5", or 5.25" hard drive or optical drive* with any standard IDE/ATA/ATAPI 40 pin or SATA interface to be connected via USB to any USB equipped computer for file transfer, backing-up and storing file archives, and accessing date on stored backup drives with Plug & Play ease. The connection status LEDs provide easy confirmation of a proper connection between a USB 1.1/2.0 equipped computer and an IDE/ATA or SATA drive. "

When upgrading an older, smaller, drive these can be used to partition and clone so you are back in business asap.

A great supplementary is a "disk enclosure" which keeps your old drive in use, but these are generally vaguely protective, NOT shockproof. See Amazon for starters.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
Thanks, Lionel, I've heard that, too, and it obviously makes sense. I must start reading the magazines again because I have to confess that I thought TM produced a clone.
Thanks Euan, this is something I was told about by my Windows-using chum, and it sounds excellent, I'll probably do this as well.
I ordered my new 500GB internal yesterday so I'll soon be able to 'enjoy'.
(it)

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Stuart Affleck
Eric, yes, you should be able to run Tiger (or any other supported OS X version) off the drive, internal or external.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
Excellent Stuart, thank you.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Derek Wright
I vote also for the extra drive to be internal - I would also suggest that you do not use Time Machine because if the prime drive dies you are dead in the water until you install a new drive, install OSX from the DVD and then do a TM restore. Allow a day or two elapsed time.

The route I use is to use a cloning application that ensure the on board back up drive is made to be the same as the primary drive at 7pm each evening. Them if the primary drive dies I can reboot using the second drive and surf the web for the best price for a replacement drive.

But what about the work you have done since the last full copy you say - I use Time Machine to do hourly updates to a separate TM drive (also in the machine) - so I can recover any work done in the last day apart from the last hour (maximum)

I use SuperDuper and as I have paid a few dollars it allows me to schedule the back up and to only copy over files that have changed or are new since the last run of the product. SO it takes about 20 to 30 minutes each day depending on the amount of changed data.

I also have an external USB drive that is SuperDupered to on an "as required basis"

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Mick Burrell
Each to his own Derek but a clone on an external rather than internal drive will cope with the startup drive dying and would also be usable with a borrowed machine if the failure was more than the startup drive. For example, a failed power supply won't allow you to access any internal drives.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
GULP!

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
Gentlemen,
Thank you all very much for your invaluable advice.
I've considered all suggestions, and made my decisions based on the following considerations:
I no longer use a computer to earn a living so any disaster will only be a qualified one.
The machine is in superb condition and isn't very old so I'll take the calculated risk of the power supply going down.
I've partitioned the new drive into three parts, as follows: 250 GB to act as the backup drive, 60 GB to run Classic via Tiger, and the remaining 180ish GB for something I haven't thought of yet.
I used SuperDuper to clone the main drive to the backup drive, which took 36 minutes; not bad for well over half a million files.
However, SD says in it's instructions that there are some files that Apple recommend they do not copy to the clone.
Today, as a preamble to attempting to set up a new modem/router on the cloned drive I opened the Network Prefs and did not see what I remembered having seen on the main drive.
I restarted on the main drive and found that the settings are indeed different.
On the main drive it says Location:Automatic, and in a left hand pane there are five lights; one green for 'Built-in Ethernet 1 connected', and four red lights for, Bluetooth, Built-in Ethernet 2, Built-in Firewire, and Airport.
On the backup drive it looks very much as it used to look when I was using Tiger i.e. in addition to Location:Automatic it tells me that 'Built-in Ethernet 1 is currently active and has the IP address 192.168.1.2'.
Below that are settings for Configure: using DHCP, IP address: 192.168.1.2, Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0, Router: 192.168.1.1, DNS Server: 192.168.1.1(greyed out), Search Domains: home(greyed out).
Could the reason for the difference be that the simplified appearance on the main drive is the result of an update to Leopard which did not get cloned across to the backup drive?
Both drives appear to be perfect inasmuch as I've been on line on them both within the last half-hour. They both informed me that new software is available for my computer, which I declined in each instance.
Any ideas?

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Mick Burrell
that actually sounds fine Eric. You will have two ethernet circuits in that machine hence the reference to ethernet 1 being connected as that's obviously the one your router is connected to. My guess is that airport is either not switched on or has not been configured or that too would have a green ball.

I'm not quite sure why on the main drive it does not give you an IP address as you clearly have one or you couldn't get online.

The files which SuperDuper refers to as not being recommended for cloning would not involve any of your network settings.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
Hallo Mick,

You're quite right about Airport, Bluetooth, etc, they're not switched on.

I agree about the simplified settings on the main drive; my guess is that the actual settings are the same on both drives, but that they are being described in a different manner for some strange reason. I'll ring you in a day or so when I try to configure the new router!

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
SON OF A CAMEL!
The network settings on the two big Leopard drives have equalized themselves, i.e. they both now contain the green and red lights, and they both now contain all the information such as IP address, subnet mask, etc. etc.
I blame Gordon Brown for this - he's got strange powers that we don't know about.
I'm scared to look at the Tiger drive.

Re: Hard drives-external v internal

Avatar Eric Jervis
WELL.
Well, well, well.
I've just connected the router that I've never been able to make work, prior to ringing Mick for advice, and it's now working perfectly.
Lost for words.
I'm going to 'enjoy'.
 
Feed