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Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Rick Churchill
If you have changed the SSD inside your computer as I have then the Monterey update will fail with the message that "Compatible internal storage is required to proceed".

It looks like based on topics raised on the internet that the original SSD has to be installed, the update procedure run and then the SSDs swapped back again. Apparently this is because there is a firmware update to be done, as well as an OS one, and Apple are wary of this being placed on non-Apple hardware. (I also read that even if the SSD has been replaced by an Apple SSD there can be rejection).

There is an option on the "error" message about using Target Disc Mode by connecting 2 computers via a Thunderbolt cable but this I did not fully understand and anyway I just have the one machine.

I suppose I have to search my loft and find the original 128 MB SSD if I haven't thrown it away!

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Rick Churchill
Unfortunately I cannot find (and think I threw away only very recently) my old 128GByte Apple SSD card which I replaced with a non-Apple SSD card. This means I cannot upgrade my 2015 MacBook Pro to the Monterey OS. Annoyingly Monterey came out before I had a clear out of my loft but none of the Apple Computer magazine articles I read on “the fantastic new Monterey OS” discovered the problem with those computers having upgraded their hardware.

This opens the opportunity to buying a new MacBook in the not too distant future, hurray!

Unfortunately in order to continue to use the 64 bit Lightroom app., which uses a 32 bit loader programme to install it, I can think of no way of loading it onto a new computer which is not running a 32 bit OS system.

My options seem to be:

1. To keep the MacBook Pro (which I would have liked to give my brother as he is existing on a Mac Mini which Noah used), to use just for Lightroom and move the pictures I need to send to people, include in videos etc to the new computer (by flash drive?)
2. To run Mojave in a partition on the new MacBook Pro, if possible, so I could use the 32 bit loader programme which comes on the Lightroom disc? (You remember discs?). This is perhaps worse because a.- I’m not sure the OSs can share data and may have to use an external drive b.- I would have to continually restart the computer to swap between OSs
3. To discard Lightroom and transfer my extensive catalogue into another programme and hope all my edit files and “Collections” (photographs grouped by subject) transfer correctly and then learn the new programme.
Any thoughts?

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Trevor Hewson
As you may know Rick, I’m in a similar legacy software bind with FreeWay and currently run Mojave from an external SSD on y 2019 iMac whenever I need to update my website. I’m fairly sure that Mick confirmed that this arrangement would not work with a new Mac (i.e. one with an Apple processor) so I’m not sure your idea of running Mojave on a new Mac would work.

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Tony Still
I recently upgraded to the 2021 (Apple Silicon) MacBook Pro. I used Migration Assistant to move some things, including my apps, from my Intel MacBook Pro. I moved all my photographic work into ON1 Raw several years ago but I never actually deleted LR so it got migrated too.

When I started typing this, I had good news: I tried opening LR on the new machine and it worked. The browser mode and Develop both appeared to work correctly; Slideshow and Map were broken but I think that's a known problem.

However, I just tried to reopen LR (to check version number etc) and it now crashes almost immediately. I shall try restarting and see if I can get it to launch again (fx: click, 'BONG', log-in).

Sadly, it still doesn't open after a restart. Sorry.

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Douglas Cheney
I have managed to update my 2015 iMac with a non standard SSD installed to Monterey with no problems

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Rick Churchill
Thanks Tony for trying.

That's interesting Douglas, is the SSD the only drive installed?

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Douglas Cheney
Yes it is the original drive was thrown away after attacking it with a club hammer

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Tony Still
If you have the time, you could try creating a bootable drive (memory stick would do) with Monterey installed on it. You could start-up using the external drive and then try to install Monterey on the internal drive from there. This might work (or others may be able to advise that it doesn't).

Mojave
An Apple Silicon machine cannot currently run Mojave (or any macOS before Big Sur) because the earlier systems were compiled only for Intel processors ("Intel Silicon"). Big Sur and Monterey are akin to Universal apps in that they include two versions, one for each processor type.

Apple Silicon machines include the Rosetta software that allows the Apple processors to run Intel-only apps. It is possible in future either that a Virtual Machine app could be used to run older versions of macOS or that Rosetta might be extended (unlikely). I have not seen any announcements along these lines yet.

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Douglas Cheney
If you want to create an Install Drive Apple give very good instructions here. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372. I create one for each update to install on my family's Macs, it takes about 20 Minto do

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Rick Churchill
Thank you Tony and Douglas.
In the last few days I have trawled the internet and also researched substitutes for Lightroom. I came across Darktable that is highly recommended and free but after preparing my Lightroom Catalogue for importation into the new programme I could not get it to run. I’ll not damn the programme yet as it has a huge following but I left it there and went back to researching the original problem.

I discovered why it is likely you had no problems Douglas, Monterey doesn’t provide an EFI update for all models of computer. I read that the 2015 15 inch MacBook Pro is one of them so even the year doesn’t define whether you will have a problem if you have changed your internal SSD. (I could not find a reference to an 2015 iMac)

I also read that booting from an external drives does not suffice but I came across a solution which seems to work for a lot of people although the discussion afterwards runs to 23 pages! There were varying amounts of success depending on model and System Firmware Version. The version numbers discussed are, for example 187.0.0.0.0. whereas in my system report the firmware version is given as MBP121.0177.B00. I got this from Apple Menu>About this Mac>System Report>Hardware tab. I am reluctant to proceed without being able to see if the firmware version is updated.

The process involves taking apart the downloaded upgrade package and extracting one element depending on YOUR_MODEL of computer. First SIP is disabled then the command “csrutil disable” is run in Terminal . Next the command “sudo bless -mount / -firmware <PATH>/YOUR_MODEL.fd — verbose -recovery” is run.

PATH is where the extracted file is located . Now I can place this package anywhere so for the desktop I assume the path would be:

Macintosh HD/Users/Rixy/Desktop …..Where Rixy is my User name


Any help you can give me about Firmware Version Number and Path syntax would be appreciated. (I dabbled with Linux some time ago but have forgotten most of it.)

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Tony Still
Howard Oakley (Eclectic Light Co) collects/curates a record of firmware versions for all Mac models and has other advice on firmware versions/updates too.

Here is a good start point.

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Lionel Ogden
It's starting to make Windows PCs look trouble free!!

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Rick Churchill
Thanks Tony, I have already trawled the Eclectic Light webpages for signs of difficulty of upgrading to Monterey to no avail. I am still stuck with where my Mac will give me a firmware version which looks anything like those discussed in the Reddit.com article on “How to update without an original SSD”.

I’ve looked up System Information which involves holding the Option Key down while clicking on the Apple Menu. It gets me to the same System Report which is under the Apple Menu>About this Mac where, as I stated above, the firmware version it shown as MPB121.0177.B00 (which I take to be MacBook Pro type 12,1 version 0177.B00)

Strangely this is nothing like 428,60,3,0,0 - the version shown in Hoakley’s Eclectic article and the 432.40.8.0.1 which is the version shown if the firmware update has been successful and when it is worth trying the OS update to Monterey, discussed in the Reddit article. I downloaded Eclectic’s Lock Rattler programme which confirmed my firmware version as MPB121.0177.B00. Perhaps it doesn’t matter as long as the version number changes showing that an update has been successful.

I cannot afford to lose access to my Mac in the next few weeks so will try out the fix in mid-March. (Before anyone else says it “Beware the ides of March”). If I still have a computer that works I’ll let you know how I get on!

Can you advise me whether I have the path syntax correct for the desktop folder:
Macintosh HD/Users/Rixy/Desktop …..Where Rixy is my User name?
Is the space after Macintosh allowed or should it be an underline (underscore)?

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Tony Still
System Information is the right place to look. The line 'System Firmware Version' is the one you need. My Intel MBP shows exactly the version predicted by Eclectic Light (447.80.3.0.0 as it happens) and shows only the five '.' separated numbers. The Apple Silicon MBP also matches but those versions are in a different format.

The value you're seeing (with the 'B00' on the end) looks a little familiar. I wonder if it's a very old version: have you seen any errors during updating, perhaps an unwillingness to change the firmware because the machine is non-standard (because of its SSD)? I vaguely remember Eclectic Light writing about something like this a while ago.

Your file name for Desktop is correct. All the users have a folder in Users named with their short name, all the system-provided folders (like Documents) exist in each of these (so your desktop is ...Rixy/Desktop and mine is ...Tony/Desktop). Spaces are valid in macOS file/folder names (though '/' isn't, obviously, nor are a few more, I think, including ':' for historical reasons).

An easy way of looking at full file paths is to open a Finder window for the folder in question and then Command-click its name in the Finder window title bar. This shows the whole tree to that folder and you can click any folder in the list to make the window show that instead.

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Rick Churchill
Thought I would bite the bullet now I have completed a project for which the Mac was essential so now I have the breathing space for trying to update my MacBook to Monterey.

After disabling SIP and extracting the EFI firmware file for my MacBook (MBP121.fd) from the Monterey download I put it on the desktop to reduce the PATH formatting and I typed in:

sudo bless -mount / -firmware Macintosh HD/Users/Rixy/Desktop/MBP121.fd --verbose -recovery

but got:
EFI found at IODeviceTree:/efi
Failed to stat firmware file, Macintosh: 2
Error while writing firmware updater for EFI

which is a fail.

Now I don't know what a SIP or an EFI is. I'm just looking into a murky pond and stirring in the direction I am told to. I don't know what "to stat" a file is and will do some more delving but presumably "EFI found at .." means that the PATH is correct.

Any help or comments appreciated.

(I can feel the hot breath of my brother on my neck as he hopes he will get a free secondhand MBP when I buy a new one!)

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Tony Still
EFI is the type of firmware in your Mac (Extensible Firmware Interface).
stat is a UNIX function that gives the calling program lots of information about an open file.
Error is an indication that you might be in dangerous waters here.

bless and mount are, AIUI, things you do do a disk: is there any indication that your firmware image (.fd) is packaged as some kind of a disk image (like a dmg)? [Edit: The man command for bless does indeed include -mount as a mode for working with firmware but sadly does not document a -firmware option. My comment about needing a disk image of sorts is probably incorrect in this context].

Presumably you got the sudo command from somewhere, are you sure you extracted the correct entity from the Monterey download and inserted the correct "file" name?

I am surprised (from first principles, not experience) that you can just update firmware in the Monterey environment. Remember that the firmware is the first thing the computer runs at start-up, if you break it then the computer will not boot into an operating system. I believe that includes not booting into Recovery (I haven't tried it).

The new MBPs are very good...

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Andrew Kemp
That error means that it has failed to find a firmware file named 'Macintosh' -- the problem is that the space in 'Macintosh HD' means that it is being treated by the shell as two separate arguments to bless, 'Macintosh' and 'HD/Users/Rixy/Desktop/MBP121.fd'.

In other words, you need quotes around the path that you are using because it contains spaces. Unless you were in the '/Volumes' directory at the time, you would also need a leading '/Volumes' to make it an absolute path:

'/Volumes/Macintosh HD/Users/Rixy/Desktop/MBP121.fd'

...or equivalently:

/Users/Rixy/Desktop/MBP121.fd

...because '/Volumes/Macintosh HD' is the same thing as '/'. This form does not need the quotes (although they would not hurt) because there is no space in it.

The man page for bless has a double '-' before each of its options: e.g. --mount, not -mount. I would guess that the same also applies to -firmware and -recovery, but as Tony said, those options are undocumented.

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Andrew Kemp
A simple way of making sure that you have the path of a file correct in a terminal command is to drag the file into the Terminal window from the desktop or from a Finder window. This inserts its full path at the cursor, so that you do not need to type it.

(If the path of the file contains spaces then this will escape them with '\', which is an alternative approach to putting it in quotes.)

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Rick Churchill
Thanks Tony and Andrew.
I will steal myself to have another go on the weekend. If you don't hear back then its because I've bricked my Mac in which case I may be waiting for the delivery of my new MBP. (Perhaps I ought to do some research on the model I would choose before attempting this "patch".)
I would jump for a new MBP if I could be sure I could load my Lightroom app. Have you tried it Tony?

Re: Beware Monterey Update Problem

Avatar Rick Churchill
I corrected the path and ran the command but unfortunately it didn't upgrade the firmware. There has been mixed results from this method. Some owners of my model of MacBook Pro have been successful and others not.

I have just ordered a used 128GByte SSD for £20 which I'll install and update to Monterey which should update the EFI too. I can then reinstall my own 1TByte SSD which I should be able to update to Monterey.

If I'm not sold a pup on eBay!

Perhaps it would be better to buy a shiny new MacBook Pro, if only it wasn't for Lightroom. The licence for the subscription is £120 (at present) so if I use it for the next 10 years, if I live that long, then that is £1200 (+ any increase). Is that a lot?
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