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DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
I no longer need to use DTP to make a living, so I am not inclined to take up Adobe's most generous offer to upgrade PageMaker to Indesign for a mere £163, the saucy dastards. Nor can I import my PageMaker files from my other drive and print them out from Classic because my new inkjet won't print from Classic. Is there a relatively inexpensive alternative which will enable me to set out a page as I want in OS X Tiger?

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
I've now read the recent blog and discovered that Pages is the answer. However, Although I've downloaded iWork o8 I'm afraid to install it because it requires a 500mb processor. Will it destroy my G4/400 if I install it? If so, which version of iWork may I safely look for on eBay?

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Terry Willis
Be careful with pages. There a number of features which you would expect but that aren't available. It depends on your depth of DTP use...

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
I'll use it principally for A4 posters for my cafe, so I really need enormous type sizes, but that's about it. Should the need arise I can still use PageMaker on my other drive and take the file elsewhere to be printed out.

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Douglas Cheney
Have you tried Apple Works

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
No, how much is it?

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eleanor Spenceley
iWork 05 with Pages v1.0 requires any G4. However this is seriously version 1.0 software. It's a bit basic but no less than Apple Works.
iWork 06 with Pages v2.0 requires a G4 with a minimum of 500 Mhz processor. Your 400 Mhz _might_ be able to cope with Pages, plenty memory will help.
I think Appleworks is very much a dead application it has not been upgraded for many years.

Eric, please correct me here if I get anything wrong:

You have a G4/400 (don't know how much memory) with Tiger and Mac OS 9 installed.
You have just bought a Cannon iP4500 for Photo printing but this does not work with Mac OS 9 applications.
You use PageMaker but this is Mac OS 9 only, so you are now looking for another application to create A4 posters.

Also, two questions for you:

Have I missed out any other requirements?
What version of PageMaker do you have?

I believe can you create a Postscript File directly in later versions. If you can, then you might be able to print out your design to a postscript file, load the postscript file in Preview and then print it to your iP4500.

Also if you are just doing simple A4 posters with just text, have you tried good old Textedit which comes with Mac OS X?

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eleanor Spenceley
Another option if you really like DTPs is to get an early version of inDesign v2.0 (not CS2.0), this will run nicely on a G4/400 + plenty of memory. eBay sells this for around £60, it is complicated for the average person, but a Pagemaker user should pick it up.

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Douglas Cheney
If you still have your OS9 discs it will have Apple Works on and you should be able to load on to OS X and update if it needs it

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
Well Gentlemen,
Thank you all for your kind interest. I am a printer by trade and familiar with such old fashioned technologies as Linotype hot metal setting and early versions of phototypesetting. After being out of the trade for many years I bought a printing machine (litho) and quickly decided that it didn't make sense to pay someone else to do the typesetting, bought a PC and had a go at it. It was disastrous because I couldn't understand 'computerspeak'. Until that wonderful day when I saw a Mac Classic for sale in the West Briton with PageMaker 4. At last there was a program that a printer could understand, so I chucked three PCs into the skip, bought a bigger Mac with PageMaker 5, and upgraded to PM 6.5. The only thing it lacked was the ability to fit text to a curve, and since PM 7 wouldn't do that either I didn't bother to upgrade further. 6.5 would do everything I wanted it to do, plus an awful lot of things I still don't understand, (such as Postscript files, but I'll read up on that this afternoon). To me, therefore, a Mac was always a tool of my trade rather than an end in itself; which is why I know virtually nothing about computers as such.
Martin; I've got 1.3 gig of sdram, OS 9 on the smaller hard drive and Tiger on the larger one, all else is correct. I've downloaded iWorks 8 but not yet installed it as it requires a 500 mHz processor. I've also got a trial version of iWorks 6 on CD, which I've likewise not installed for the same reason. If I install either one and it doesn't work, will I be able to uninstall it without having done any damage?
I've just bought an iP4500, primarily for printing out large text on A4 posters, and it will not work with OS 9 or Classic.
I do fancy the early version of inDesign as I'm pretty sure it will import a PageMaker file, which would suit me nicely as I don't want to lose the ability to do some DTP, for old times sake. I'll have a look on eBay.
Douglas; I've still got the OS 9 disks but I don't recall ever seeing Appleworks on them. It may be that it is there and I never realized. I get bemused with these installation disks as there always seem to be things on them I don't understand. I'll have a look.

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eleanor Spenceley
I cannot help you specifically with Pagemaker since I've never used it for more than 1 hour and that was many years ago. However, I've been able to print out a Postscript file on Mac OS 9/Word 98 so it should be possible on Pagemaker. Especially so since Pagemaker was THE application which kickstarted the whole DTP industry as well as Postscript Printers.

Given your pre-Mac OS X history I'll assume you know the Chooser? Hint. Select LaserWriter as your 'printer'. This will be best done rebooting your G4 in Mac OS 9 (just to select the printer that is).

If you have any problems, all this would be much easier at a WAMUG meeting.
B&Bs should get cheaper in September if you live too far away ;-)



Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
Like your style, Martin, like your style! To take your final point first, I'll be watching the emails like a hawk to make sure I don't miss the first meeting at Plymouth, as in the good old days.
I've been mucking about with TextEdit and it's sort of OK. Once I discover how to change the margins it will probably do for my A4 posters.
On the subject of Postscript files, PM will certainly do it as there's reams of stuff on the subject in the handbook. I'm about to press Restart with D held down. I'll let you know........

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
Hmmm, that didn't work but I changed the start-up disk, went into the finder, changed to PS printer, back into Tiger, and that doesn't work either.
There are five inDesigns currently on eBay, versions 1, 1.5, and 2. Version 1 is dirt cheap, and I suspect that will do me, providing it will run OK on Tiger. What are your thoughts?

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eleanor Spenceley
So.....

When running in Mac OS 9 (not classic) can you get Pagemaker to print a Postscript file?

When it comes to software it is never a really good idea to buy version 1.0 of anything ;-)


Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
Re: version 1; you're quite right, I'll scrub round that one.
Postscript; hmmm.. I used to do something like that when I needed the services of a filmsetter. I'll nip back into OS 9 and investigate.

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
I thought I'd done it, created a package I thought was a Postscript file, copied it to the Tiger hard drive, where it is described as a TextEdit document (which TextEdit refuses to open). I can't actually print anything in OS 9 of course as I haven't got a suitable printer. What about inDesign 1.5 then? Will it work under Tiger?

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eleanor Spenceley
I have a Power Mac here running Mac OS 9 with no printer attached, yet I've been able to create a Postscript file from Word (see previous message). Given Pagemaker lives and breathes Postscript I find it funny why you cannot.

Which begs the questions, have you setup Pagemaker correctly and are you printing out the Postscript file correctly? I ask these question again since printers often required a Postscript file from the publisher in order to do their printing. Since Pagemaker is a sophisticated piece of software, it probably has its own printer settings, but I'm sure it can do such a 'bread and butter' task as creating a Postscript file.

Which brings me to the next question. How have you named the Postscript file? Does it have .ps at the end or .txt or something else? For Mac OS X you should add .ps at the end of the file name.

Besides why are you trying to open a 'Postscript file' in Textedit? Textedit views everything as simple text or Rich Text Format including Postscript files
It should treat Postscript as basic text e.g. Here's some Postscript 'commands' Textedit would show:

%!PS-Adobe-2.0
%%Title: SEPARATION4
%%CreationDate: 25/3/1994 @ 17:57:53
%%BoundingBox: 74 65 762 492
%%Pages: 1
%%EndComments


/ClipDict 2 dict def
/ClipToRectangle

If you don't get anything then it is unlikely your Postscript file is a basic Postscript file.

Try using Preview instead to open the file, but make sure the right file extension is set first (e.g. .ps).

I wonder if this is sounding all too complicated for you, I think you really need to talk to someone directly who can see what you are seeing and doing.

As for complicated things, I know InDesign is seriously complicated, given your knowledge level so far and trying to be polite as possible, perhaps InDesign is not the way to go either. You just might be digging into a deeper hole for yourself with InDesign.

Have a try with Pages 06 but failing that, you'll need to attend one our meetings with all your kit.


Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
DUNNIT!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..........................
I hit it with Acrobat Distiller, copied it to other drive, restarted, and lo and behold, Preview opened it. However, I shall need to increase the top margins before I distill it. Might be a printer problem, I'll have to read that handbook now.
OS X is now behaving strangely though, possibly a result of Choosing the Postscript printer?
Safari no longer fills the screen, and in the Bookmarks sub menu the bookmarks now appear on the right hand side instead of the left.

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eleanor Spenceley
"OS X is now behaving strangely though, possibly a result of Choosing the Postscript printer?"

I assume you chose the postscript printer when in Mac OS 9 and not OS X? If so, any changes which has happened on OS X are due to 'user corruption' whilst in OS X and nothing to do with OS 9.

Re: DTP (or something like it) with Tiger

Avatar Eric Jervis
Correct about the printer, Martin, but provided OS X otherwise behaves itself I shan't mind. The sub-menu is now on the correct side according to the little arrow, and the dock is much smaller which should give me the opportunity to put other things in it once I find out how!
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