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DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
I did set the G5 up again with the intention of using inDesign to produce a book, only to find that the version I've got is not really compatible with the OSX version the machine is using. Is there an inexpensive alternative to inDesign and Quark? I like Pages but I need something I can hand over to a printer. PageMaker had a feature called 'save for service provider', which is probably what I need.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Drew McFarlane
Hi Eric,

A highly respected member of the club introduced me to Libre Office, a free of charge download from the App Store.

I suggest that you have a look, it might just be what the doctor ordered?

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Mick Burrell
Eric, my first step would be to ask the printer what formats he can handle. If for example he can handle a pdf, you could even send him one from Pages to check and if all is OK you could use a program you know you like and which would have a huge user base for any support you need.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
Thanks Drew, thanks Mick, I didn't realise that printers could use pdf s these days, they couldn't when I was a gentleman printer. I'll get hold of him on Monday.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Euan Williams
Hi Eric, a couple of very late additions to the discussion for anyone else interested.

Pages was used a few years ago by a relation of one of our members to publish a large and fully colour-illustrated book on clocks which I have seen and enjoyed. The typography wasn’t perhaps quite as handsome as you might like to produce, nor were the images always quite as well prepped for print, but that is completely beside the point as it was produced by a total publishing beginner with help and advice from our member who would be the first to admit to also having no previous experience in “pro” print.

The book was prepared in Pages (Intel Mac) and submitted to the printer in .pdf format.

People may like to read up on PDF formats; there is a brief summary here.

and a full treatment with references here. <

For many years my printers have required publications to be exported from InDesign (or Quark Xpress) in pdf format which has been enormously convenient — just a single file — for their direct-to-plate work flow.

I’m looking forward to trying Serif’s upcoming Affinity Publisher, the third in their excellent series which includes the remarkable Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo. Not for your G5, but take a look when it appears (early 2016 with luck). All three use the same internal software ‘engine’ which makes them if anything even more flexible than Adobe’s CS family. Plus: NO subscription, just £39.99 each (free 10 day trials).

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
Thanks, Euan, I am very interested.

WELL STONE ME!!!!!!!

The brand new Apple Bluetooth keyboard I've now been using on and off for three measly days has killed its batteries off! I liked it as well, as I got far fewer missed keystrokes than on this one. Deep breaths.

I am in fact using Pages on the Mini - having discovered (I think) that its USB problem was caused by a new, but very cheap, USB hub.
I think, however, that Pages will only be suitable for knocking up a rough proof that I can show to interested parties. Broadly speaking I can make it do what I want but almost everything feels like a workaround. And its a long, long job.

What I shall need to do is import some four colour jpeg illustrations and set the text on top of them. If Affinity Publisher, possibly with the help of one of its brethren, will enable me to do this I will consider it to be remarkably cheap. Provided I don't need to buy a new Mac to go with it of course.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Euan Williams
Hi Eric, sorry about the keyboard.
Re. Pages, I understand about work-arounds, but Pages is meant to be a capable introduction to layout and an aid to help people write elegantly laid out letters, etc. It never pretended to be a true pro layout app. Affinity suite seems to be bidding fair to offer both pros and relative beginners some solid opportunities to widen their scope.

Affinity Photo officially requires (as a minimum):
Intel processor with 64-bit support (Core 2 Duo onwards).
Mac OS X Lion (10.7.5) and above.
2GB RAM
601MB of available hard-disk space
1280 x 768 display
Cannot install on a volume that uses a case-sensitive file system or on removable flash storage devices.

I would expect the rest of the trio to require the same, and hope to try Photo and Designer on a low-spec Mac this weekend.

Naturally more RAM, faster drives, speedier CPUs will all improve your experience. Try colour mixes ("Overlay, Soft Light, Screen, Pin Light" etc.) as in Photoshop and the live font view changing your formatted text as you run down your font list.
Hope this helps.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
Hi Euan,

Mmmmmmmmm..... I can hardly wait!

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Euan Williams
Hi Eric. Tried using some of the more complicated live adjustment procedures this pm on my old MacBook -- white, 2Ghz core2 duo, 4GB ram Early 2009, 5,2. While loading was fairly slow, things generally went along at a reasonable clip under Mavericks once everything was loaded. The "live" font changes and blend effects were quite speedy, although use of the more calculation-intensive live adjustment layers did need a short pause to show results.

You can get a ten day trial from the App Store (the only place to buy the software). Enjoy the tutorials and the Help menus!

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Tony Still
Eric,
Pleased to hear that you've found the reason for your USB issues.

Evan,
Your comments on Pages are why some of us are still using Pages '09. I too am looking forward to the Serif/Affinity offering. Affinity Designer is now my vector drawing app of choice (when I don't use Pages, that is!).

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
Hi Euan & Tony,

I don't dare to muck about with a new app until I've got this book out of the way, which should be Sunday, but for the revising!

I am using Page '09 with Mountain Lion.

I imagine my best bet would be to wait for the expected bug-free El Capitan update and then for the release of Affinity Publisher. The pdf specs was interesting.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
I yielded to temptation and downloaded the free trial of AD and have been mucking about with it for hours on end. I have to say it surpassed my expectations; better than the Photoshop 4 I remember using on a Syquest drive/PowerMac so many years ago. it is fantastic and will be well worth the forty quid I intend to spend when my free trial expires. Tomorrow I'm going to muck about a bit more and try to make it import text from Pages. Goodbye for ever, Adobe, you losers, byeeeeeeee.....

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
Hallo Tony,

I've just spent about ten hours trying to solve a problem with Affinity Designer. I thought it was because I'm using Pages '09, so I spent hours knocking the page up again on the G5/InDesign which initially seemed to be an improvement. but to no avail.
What I'm trying to do is arrange a line of 14pt English beneath a line of 18pt French, using the space bar to do so. Each English word has to centre on its equivalent French one, because it is a transliteration on a right hand page, where the simple translation is on the left hand.
The problem stems from the fact that A/D will not import from Pages directly so you have to convert the text to a pdf first and import that. The pdfs I create look perfect when opened by Preview but A/D distorts them when importing so the words do not line up.
I gave up in the end and just centered each text block, but I am considerably peeved to say the least.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
Fixed it! Dr Jonson said that the prospect of being hanged in the morning wonderfully concentrates the mind, well, writing the problem down seems to do the same thing. Why did the first book come out perfectly and this one refuses to behave? Because I have been taking a short cut; I didn't use the space bar to space the words out, but full points coloured white. Its behaving itself now.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Tony Still
Eric,

Pleased that you're sorted. I've had similar issues with text in PDFs going into Designer. For small amounts of text, I've taken to (re)creating them in Designer.

It's actually quite a difficult problem importing PDF text as, depending on the source (creator) program, it can be quite chopped up even though it appears OK when rendered by Preview/Acrobat or whatever. I thought there was an option to control some aspect(s) of PDF text in Designer but I can't find it at a quick look.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
Hi Tony, Yes, it seems to treat Pages-created PDFs a bit differently from the InDesign ones. I do wish they'd bring out a handbook, of the same quality as the PageMaker and InDesign ones, but when you think of it, that's the hard bit isn't it? I found the Artistic Text tool fairly easy to figure out but the Frame Text tool is a bit of a pain in the derrière.

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Brian Tapper
Hi Eric, have you tried iStudio Publisher? a really good DTP application and it costs about £20.00

Re: DTP alternatives

Avatar Eric Jervis
Grrrr.....and there was me thinking nobody had said anything for weeks now, and I hadn't noticed the site was calling 'guest'. Now safely logged in again!
I might try that one Brian but the reason for my appearance today is to say that I must have been over working, unable to see the wood for the trees etc.,
Decided to have a go with the Frame Text tool in AD and discovered that its a doddle, working just like the ones in pageMaker and InDesign. You just draw a box with it and start setting. I blame Pages for confusing me. When I think of all the countless hours I've wasted beggaring about with that, when I could have done it the easy way. Grrrrr.....
 
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