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El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Trevor Hewson
I don't normally go for new OS versions at least until the x.0.1 update is out to fix the first wave of bugs. However, I see that El Capitan includes a number of upgrades to Photos, including the re-introduction of the batch change feature. The loss of this has been the biggest single source of frustration in the iPhoto to Photos transition so this is a welcome move.

Question is, should I let it tempt me into being an early adopter this time?

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Euan Williams
Trevor, let yourself be tempted and succumb. There will be bugs as always with software, but Apple's public beta reporting series seems to have ironed out any disastrous ones. If possible install on a clean partition and import your data from a recent clone or Time m/c -- that always helps to avoid corruptions from the past creeping in. Enjoy the latest Photos!

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Tony Still
Trevor,
I've hardly stopped smiling over two days of using El Capitan. After the protracted Beta that was Yosemite, this feels like a product that's reached release quality. The network stacks appear to work again and I can connect my (Apple) Bluetooth mouse without resort to multiple workarounds, Airplay plays without drop-outs just like it used to (and still did on my iPad) and a number of things (especially application launching) are noticeably faster.

It did trash my iCloud mail settings (see separate thread) but that's easily fixed. I hope I'm not jumping to conclusions but this feels like something of which Apple can be proud; time to draw a veil over Yosemite (though I might dance on its grave first :-) ).

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Roy Rainford
I decided to go for it today not later - bad decision for me!
The download was OK but the install stalled with the progress bar around 80% and it said, "Installing: About 7 minutes remaining". Well it has been stuck there for at least two hours so I guess it's time to power down and retire 'hurt'. Will have to leave it until Sunday now. I have a bootable Yosemite backup on an external drive but didn't try to install on a clean partition. Please be kind to me Euan!
The partly installed El Capitan is on my iMac HD so should I erase it then load Yosemite from the external drive and download El Capitan again and try another install? Roy.

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Mick Burrell
I've only updated two machines so far and both went without a hitch although I left my 2007 laptop to get on with it so I couldn't tell you if it stalled and then finished some time later (I'd left it for about four hours before I went back to it).

I understand Euan's enthusiasm for installing on a clean partition but I don't think Apple expect everyone to be able to cope with that - the vast majority will just install over what they have so it should work. Will the machine start? If so, i'd be inclined to run the installer again. It should install 10.11.1.

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Euan Williams
Hi Roy,
Mick is right, the OSX installer should work on earlier installations, but there is rather more to it if you are having difficulty.

If the currently installed software (say, Yosemite or Mavericks) has been in some small degree misbehaving or is in a slightly dodgy state — which a user (experienced or not) may not have noticed — then, despite all Apple’s precautions, the installation may stall, or later cause the user some difficulty which is often blamed on the new OS version.

This does NOT mean that installation on top of an earlier version is a bad thing, just that it is important to use ‘due diligence’ and make sure that your existing set-up is as healthy as possible. Should “on top of” installation cause an issue, then a clean install is the only practical solution — which is why maintaining up to date clones and Time M/c backups is important.

But first:
a related issue that caused me concern recently was caused by making a clone of an El Capitan installation from one MacBook Pro and then cloning it onto a second MacBook Pro to ensure that both had the exact same data. The Result was that in all respects the clone to the second Mac worked just fine — until it came to the App Store and iCloud passwords. Both Macs use the same Apple ID, and the same (complex) password

The second MacBook couldn’t do anything in the App store as the store reported an ”unknown” password error and referred the user to Apple Support. Various ‘fixes’ for similar problems are available on-line, and some worked for some users, but not this time. Sleeping on it, I realised that El Capitan has much tighter security and the solution lay in erasing the partition, installing 10.11.1 ‘fresh’ and then migrating everything from the initial clone. This worked, because Apple security now “know” the second MacBook as a separate device, and it has not since given any trouble.

Second:
It is entirely possible that your El Capitan installer has come up against some hitherto unsuspected and possibly ‘invisible’ oddity in your drive data. So if you were to again reinstall El Capitan “On Top of” —successfully — you could make matters worse and might experience yet more aggravation.

I would personally go for the ‘cleanest’ state possible, but at a bare minimum, using your Mac's internal OSX and then your external clone, restart in SafeBoot mode (hold down the Shift key at start-up) and remember that the screen weirdnesses are just to remind you that you are working in Safe Boot mode. Now run Disc Utility permissions and disc verify to make sure all is well. Safe Boot removes some (not all) caches which may sometimes help. Don’t forget to restart normally afterwards. This WON’T make everything healthy if there is a hidden corrupt data problem. Never underestimate the trouble that cache corruption can cause :)

Note that in Disc Utility for El Capitan the Permission check function is “deprecated” as Apple put it in their quaint Californian way. Always use the appropriate Disc Utility version for the OSX installation.

As you might expect, all this is easier, if more time-consuming, if you erase a partition, install your OSX “fresh”, and then migrate your data from your recent clone or Time M/c backup. By removing some redundant cache data your Mac may also run better.

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Roy Rainford
Many thanks Mick and Euan for the helpful replies. I have been away today and after 3 hours driving on the M27 and M3 I am not in a fit state to tackle my iMac problem! Will return to that tomorrow. Thanks again. Roy

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Roy Rainford
Overnight I remembered that I had a similar problem when upgrading to Yosemite - my entry of 17/9/2015 refers. So this morning, 'with fingers crossed', I started the iMac. At first it looked like a failure for about 20 mins then the image of El Capitan appeared on screen! The setting up process started and about an hour later I find that I have OS 10.11.1 - amazing! Next I will do a bootable backup. Thanks again to Mick and Euan. Roy

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Mick Burrell
Glad you're sorted Roy. As you had similar problems with Yosemite, it suggests there's something in there that's not quite right and causing these long delays. Short of following Euan's advice about a clean install (which I'm sure would fix this) there's something else you could try that's a little less involved. When 10.11.2 is released, Apple will release a Combo update, designed to update any version of 10.11 (i.e. 10.11 and 10.11.1 in this instance). That has all the files needed to update either version so if you download and install this instead of just using the update from the App Store, it may find and replace any corrupt files you have in the system.

When 10.12 is released next year, why not start the install then go out for the day ;-)

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Roy Rainford
Thanks Mick. There does seem to be a bug in the system so I will look out for the Combo update. Have just had Lightroom crash on loading some new images!

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Mick Burrell
I'd check with Adobe (Help>Check for updates?) whether you have a version that's OK with 10.11. Will Adobe update the bought version or push you to the subscription one?

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Roy Rainford
The bought version can still be updated without a subscription. I am checking opinions on a LR forum re updating my v6. The latest update LR v6.2 has been causing problems and a recent comment was " Lightroom 6.2 versions are being released prematurely".

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Mick Burrell
I'm guessing you're not using 6.2 - you just have 6.1 causing problems ;-)

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Roy Rainford
Quite right Mick. I am not touching 6.2 until I see the 'all clear'. However I did find that before El Capitan I was using outdated LR 6 and have just updated it to 6.1.1 so am hoping problems with LR are over. (wishful thinking!).

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Euan Williams
Hi Roy, if adjusting your Lightroom versions doesn’t seem to be effective, (and yes, you and Mick are right, they may well be part of the problem) you might like to see if the problems are down to dodgy caches. As installing different software packages may not remove the caches, problems within these may persist.

Use the (free) Onyx utility from Titanium.fr — but make sure you use the correct version for your OSX version.

Within Onyx
1. Go to the ‘Cleaning’ menu and under “System” delete —Boot, —Kernel and Extensions and —Other System Components caches.

2. Then move on to the “User” menu and delete —Applications and, since you generally have to have Java installed to use CS5 and CS6, the —Java and Java Applets caches.

3. For good measure move on to the Fonts menu and delete the —System, Users, and Apple Applications as well as --Adobe Systems Incorporated cache plus any other Font caches that are appropriate.

You might also like to get Onyx to --Verify your Preference Files (tick the box to only show ‘bad’ files). Sometimes you may see notes about "null" data. Ignore these.

If you have Oracle’s Java installed (and it shows up in System Preferences), make sure by clicking on it and following the menu item that is eventually revealed for Update status, that you have the latest Java version running. For the Apple Java “left-out” file that Apple offer on system installation because you are using CS5, CS6 etc. Just re-download and install that.

If you do a ‘clean’ install followed by a data migration these militant manoeuvres will likely not be necessary, and providing you are migrating to the same Mac, you shouldn’t need to re-register your software.

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Roy Rainford
Thank you Euan. Following your comments I downloaded Onyx for El Capitan and put it through 1, 2 and 3 above. ie. they were 'Executed', as Onyx says. My iMac already feels 'cleaner and meaner'! Verify Preference Files wasn't showing as an option - perhaps it's hidden somewhere? Oracle's Java is not installed - not in System Preferences. Thanks again, Roy

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Euan Williams
Hi Roy, glad it did some good :) Verify Preferences is under the Maintenance menu, third option along -- I should have made this clear!

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Euan Williams
Doug C. has just emailed asking where the User Preferences are to be found. The most recent version 3.1.1 as downloaded today for El Capitan appears to have “lost” the User Preferences check which used to be included under “Maintenance”. System preferences seem to have survived.

Although User Preference check is included as an option in the current Onyx "Help" document, clicking on that does not link to more information, (the other links all work normally).

I have emailed a report to Onyx.

Re: El Capitan - now or later?

Avatar Euan Williams
And here's the reply:
"This option has been deleted from a long time. If you see that in the Help, you must simply reset the Help (Maintenance > Rebuild > Mac Help).
So there we are. Sorry people!
 
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